222: How to Build Authentic Connections and Personal Branding with Alyssa Jaffer

Aoife O’Brien [00:00:03]:

Alisa, you’re so welcome to the Happier at Work podcast. I’m so looking forward to this conversation with you. Do you want to let people know, listeners know, a little bit about you, your background, and how you got to doing what you’re doing today?

Alyssa Jaffer [00:00:16]:

Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me, Aoife. I am so privileged and humbled to to have this opportunity to speak to your listeners and really excited for the conversation we’ll have. So I’m Alisa Jaffer. I am a senior global communications manager at a tech company called Deliveroo that operates in 10 markets around the world, and I’m also a freelance writer and journalist. So I write articles impacting women at work, careers, women’s health, lifestyle, travel, and brand for the likes of Stylist Magazine, Albright, Business Insider, and so many more. And I’m also a copywriter and a content writer. So I support small businesses with copy and and, copywriting for their websites, their blogs, and helping them to reach new audiences and and reach their goals when it comes to brand awareness.

Aoife O’Brien [00:01:08]:

Brilliant. And do you know what? I’m trying to remember how we originally connected. Was it was either on Instagram or LinkedIn. I can’t remember which. But I contributed to one of the articles that you’re publishing for stylists. So thank you very much for I really appreciate you having that contribution. But it’s so I think the kinds of articles that you publish are so pertinent to what’s going on right now. And dare I say, specifically for women and for women’s issues, I think both, you know, as women ourselves, it’s probably much easier to relate to what’s going on for us specifically.

Aoife O’Brien [00:01:43]:

But I suppose I’d love to take a step back and your career is varied. You know, you’ve got lots of stuff going on. How do you make it all happen? Like, how do you have a full time job and you’re writing? And I know that you’re involved in voluntary stuff as well.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:02:00]:

Yes. It’s, an interesting question with a very unglamorous answer, I’m afraid. So, the short answer is I don’t have much of a social life and I work a lot. I’m working quite a lot. But for me, I know that I’m in my building phase. So I am finding pockets of time where I can really add value and pursue my passions. I have been a writer for my entire life from before I even knew what careers meant or looked like. I knew that I had words inside me, and it’s the way that I expressed myself the best.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:02:35]:

So throughout my career, I got my start as an investigative journalist in, Berkeley, California, and I then moved to London to pursue my master’s in international journalism. And from there, I moved into marketing and digital marketing, content marketing, and now I work in comms. So I’ve had quite a squiggly career. It’s been anything but linear, But the one constant for me has been writing. And I find that using words to connect with people, it’s almost a love language for me. So it’s more of a passion project. So although it requires quite a lot of work in the evenings, on the weekends, making sacrifices and being able to make some tough choices and go far out of my way in order to secure, opportunities to tell the stories that I that I want to talk about, I find that that as well propels me and motivates me to to keep going.

Aoife O’Brien [00:03:29]:

And I think similar and we we kind of had this discussion before we started recording, but similar to myself, when I receive feedback that the words that I’ve shared or the conversations that I’ve had have really resonated with someone and they’ve taken action based on that, they’ve done something differently as a result. Like, that’s what keeps me going. Absolutely. Paid to do the podcast. In fact, the podcast cost me money, but it’s a way for me to connect with people like yourself as guests. It’s a way for me to connect with an audience as well who I don’t necessarily get to see face to face. Although watch this space, I’m looking at at doing a couple of live shows for the podcast. But it’s a way, I suppose, to share my ideas, and it’s a way for me to to get those ideas out there and to have that impact without necessarily having to sit down 1 to 1 with every single person who’s listening.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:04:27]:

Absolutely. And I think that point that you’ve made around connection and an authentic genuine connection, it’s so rare in our digital world. So the fact that you are building a platform for yourself to share your message and to connect with people who are listening to this podcast but also following you on LinkedIn, colleagues that you’ve had in the past, future clients even, being able to build those connections with people by offering them value in a world where we’re quite disconnected from one another and tech is almost isolating us in a way, that itself is the reward. And I find that so refreshing about your approach.

Aoife O’Brien [00:05:01]:

Thank you. Thanks. The the thing that I was gonna mention as well, Alisa, is this inner knowing from a very young age that you had these words inside you that needed to come out before you even were thinking from a career perspective, before you’re even thinking, I want to be a journalist or I want to be a writer or anything like that. Any words of wisdom or advice to share with people who have that knowing or that sense inside them, but maybe they’re they’re not taking the steps or they’re not feeling brave enough to make that happen to turn it into a reality.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:05:34]:

Yes. I think mindset is so key and important. And if you’re lucky enough to have a talent or a gift, and I think all of us do have some form of that. It’s just about giving yourself some space and patience to explore that and what that is. I think the mindset is is so important in that. We live in a world where everything is being monetized, commercialized, bought, sold, and commodified, and that includes our hobbies and our passions. And I I find that that is almost creating a bit of a a backwards relationship with how you should nurture your own talent. So if you are feeling like, you’re a writer or you’re a painter or you’re a musician or you’re a data analyst and you know that this is your gift, you know that this is your talent, but you’re really just struggling to get out of your own way, If instead you stop tying your fear of failure to the act of taking that step forward of reaching out to the person who you admire that you’re really wanting to connect with or putting your paintbrush to canvas and just creating something.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:06:44]:

If you instead change your idea of success to someone will buy my painting or someone will, sign a contract with me and engage my services, If you change your your your goal then to, I’m going to create the painting. I’m going to write the article. I’m going to analyze the data. Whatever that looks like for you, the act of doing it itself is a success. I find that when you change your mindset in that way, you’re then pleasing yourself. You’re meeting your own goal. You’re meeting your own expectations and not things that are out of your control, where if someone may or may not buy your painting, you’re counting that as your definition of success when actually the success should be that you created the painting in the 1st place. You created something, and that is brilliant.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:07:26]:

That’s an achievement. That’s amazing. You made something where there was nothing before. So for me, I think that that mindset shift has been so valuable because I was holding myself back quite a lot thinking, am I good enough? And are are people going to find me as an imposter, for example, or think that I’m not good enough or determine my self worth instead of me valuing and the and evaluating my own self worth. I I then took the power back and I decided to define success on my own terms. And actually when I did that, I stopped caring so much about the outcome because when you work in a creative industry, there’s so much failure, there’s so much rejection, There’s so much ghosting that happens. You write pitches that go nowhere. You write proposals that don’t get responded to or that get negotiated down or, things happen that are out of your control.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:08:20]:

So once you draw that line between what you can and cannot control, there’s an empowerment in that. And I found that that act actually has unlocked a lot of of success for me because I’ve gotten out of my own way.

Aoife O’Brien [00:08:33]:

I have so much to say about everything that you’ve just shared, Alisa. Thank you so much. I absolutely love that. And it’s it’s kind of a vulnerable share as well, isn’t it? And this I think making that mindset shift, like, one of the notes that I took is it’s a shift towards serving others while at the same time meeting your own needs, and a shift in the mindset of what success actually means, which I think is so hard for people because, societally, we’re conditioned to think success is a nice car, a big house, a big salary, a fancy job title. But, actually, from what you’re saying, success really is about putting something out there into the world that never existed before. And that’s something I often think with the podcast in particular. Like, I am building a business from nothing. There was literally nothing there.

Aoife O’Brien [00:09:24]:

I have built this business from scratch. I’ve built this podcast absolutely from scratch. At the start, I did everything myself. Now I have a a bit of support that helps me along the way to get things done. But this idea of and so many people hold themselves back of, like, I’m a total imposter. Like, this is something I speak on all the time. I’m not good enough. People are gonna judge me.

Aoife O’Brien [00:09:48]:

Like, all of these things go on in our heads. But if I had never started the podcast and my reason for starting the podcast, by the way, was because I loved listening to podcasts. And I think over time, what I’ve discovered is my own what are my own innate abilities. And it’s why I do the summary episodes. So I mentioned before we started recording that prior to the start of this year, I used to have a summary at the end of the episode pulling out what the key insights are. Now we do it as a separate bonus episode that comes out. So note for people, I will be doing a bonus episode on on this podcast recording that

Alyssa Jaffer [00:10:25]:

comes out on

Aoife O’Brien [00:10:25]:

Monday if you’re listening in real time. But it’s something that I’ve done throughout my entire career. And I don’t know whether this is an innate ability, it probably is, or whether it’s something that’s developed over time. And it definitely is something that I’ve honed over time is being able to pull out the key insights. And I’ve done that for my entire career, again, in a very different context, looking at data, spotting patterns, pulling out what the key takeaways are from that information, and then the recommendations and the action points that you need to take based on the information that was shared. But that’s something that now going back to what you were saying about that thing that’s inside you that needs to come out. And in another context, what I used to do was share my knowledge or share my key insights with colleagues as well. Like, here’s what I found about productivity or here’s what I found when I was out talking to people and trying to generate sales, things like that.

Aoife O’Brien [00:11:22]:

Throughout my entire career, I’ve always wanted to pass back information to help other people. And, you know, something else that just sprung to mind quite randomly, Tripadvisor. I used to be in the top 1% reviewers on Tripadvisor because I used to write reviews for everything that I did because I wanted to help other people to discover places or to avoid places if they weren’t worth going to.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:11:48]:

And, actually, that is your superpower. And I think for a lot of us as well, a skill that you have, you don’t always realize that it’s a skill or talent. So for you being able to analyze and assess information and build it in a way that’s digestible and helpful for people, packaging it all up that way, that’s a gift of yours, and it’s a it’s a highly sought after skill that most people don’t have. So once you’re able to start thinking of it and treating it that way, you can start nurturing it, you can start flexing it, you can start building it, and it’s with practice, isn’t it? Because for you, with the podcast as an example, the act of creating the podcast itself is the achievement. And you’re doing it for yourself and the people who you know you’re helping, and that then motivates you to keep going. So if you reframe your idea of success in that way, it can unlock things that you wouldn’t have otherwise expected because you’re not yourself holding you’re not the one holding yourself back.

Aoife O’Brien [00:12:42]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s really focusing on as I you know, the kind of the language that I like to use is serving. Like, who is it that you’re serving and putting the focus on that. Like, not, oh, the podcast is costing me money. I’m not making money from it. But rather, I’m helping people.

Aoife O’Brien [00:12:58]:

And for me, it’s it’s a marketing tool because I know for anyone who listens on the podcast and who then later reaches out to me to connect, to, to work with me, it’s a no brainer because they’ve heard me speak. They know my approach on things. So from a marketing perspective, it works really, really well, I have to say, and I love doing it.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:13:17]:

Yes. And you built that trust as well.

Aoife O’Brien [00:13:19]:

Yeah. This is it. Alisa, the other thing that I wanted to touch on, I know we we started talking about it before we started recording, is this idea of your personal brand and how to build a personal brand in an authentic way. And this is something that I talk about a lot when it comes to careers and career development. And people probably don’t know that they have a personal brand or they think that brands apply to products and not to people and and things like that. So can you talk me through maybe your perception of what a personal brand means and talk about how you’ve built and continue to build your own personal brand?

Alyssa Jaffer [00:13:56]:

Absolutely. Yes. The the topic of personal brand, it’s so interesting, isn’t it? Because it’s a buzzy, trend worthy, but also you wonder whether there’s substance to it. I personally think that, personal brand is just a fancy way of saying your reputation. It’s what people say about you when you’re not in the room. And reputation has been incredibly important for people and businesses for as long as work culture has existed. Ultimately, it comes down to trust. Can people trust what you say, and what do you want to be known for? And I think if you’re able to to answer that question for yourself of what do you want people to say about you when you’re not in the room, that then can help inform how you build and nurture your own personal brand.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:14:40]:

So for me, I want people to know that I’m a writer, that I’m a communicator, and that I’m a kind person, and I’m good at what I do. And that already is 4 different things. But how can I then package that up and practice that and iterate that in a way that’s authentic? So I think for me, when it comes to authentic brand building, that’s the way that for me has felt most sustainable because I’m not someone who can record reels on Instagram and speak to my my camera and just put that out there and just do kind of day in the life, get ready with me, these types of things. For me, it doesn’t feel authentic. There are people out there who do that and who do that really well and succeed in that, and more power to them. But for me, that’s not the way that I feel comfortable. So I think part of the journey for me has been as well, how can I say something in a way that still feels like it’s me? That I’m not selling out for the sake of the algorithm or in order to get lots of likes and engagement and, again, tying myself worth to how external forces out of my control are responding to the content that I’m putting out. For me, it’s been more about serving, as you said, and that value that I can impart on other people.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:15:52]:

So a few ways that I’ve been able to do that, within Deliveroo, I joined the Gender Equity Employee Resource Group, and I went far out of my way to bring in initiatives and start projects that can actually impact the women that work in the business. One of the initiatives that I was really proud of was the Women’s Connect Club, basically a separate club that I designed to bring both external women who are mid senior in their roles from around London, companies like Google, Zoe, TikTok, Goldman Sachs, and entrepreneurs as well, and a couple of women internally from Deliveroo, and bring them together, have a shared meal together, and talk talk without filter about an issue that impacts women at work. So the first dinner that we that I hosted, I set the theme as how to build your network to unlock your net worth, which was a really great conversation to have around the room in London because everyone has varying levels of comfort when it comes to networking and building connections. And especially in a bit of a lonely city like London that’s quite transient. How can we step out of our daily routines to actually force those connections? What are times that that’s not worked for you? What are times that you felt really awkward at a networking event? What are the techniques that have helped you? And being able to help one another in that, I think, was, was really valuable. And the second dinner that we hosted was around the topic of the importance of self promotion in the workplace, which speaks to a bit of the conversation that we’re having now around how can you actually speak about your achievements in a way that doesn’t feel braggy or icky or inauthentic or, disingenuous to who you are as a person. And there’s so many different ways to do that. So I think being able to put yourself in in situations, groups, conversations that feel authentic to you, things that you’re passionate about, for example, or you are really interested in and can speak on with some level of authority, passion, interest, that then can help you connect with other people on on a common ground or shared ground.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:17:53]:

So finding opportunities where that where that can exist. And if an opportunity doesn’t exist, build it yourself. Build your own table. What is the conversation that you want to have, and how can you bring in 1, 2, 3 people to share that conversation with you? And then I think making yourself available is the other piece of that. So, at Deliveroo as well, I started the first ever learning and development committee within the business, and I knew that I wanted to be able to bring in external speakers, and workshop facilitators in order to add value to the members of my company and give them an opportunity to learn a skill that they otherwise wouldn’t have had the opportunity to do, outside of their their usual remit. And in that way as well, then I could when the when the, you know, I could design that opportunity on my own. And so when I brought in an external speaker to talk about self promotion in the workplace, I then designed the event so that I could be the moderator of the fireside chat that we had with the external speakers. So I planned the event, and I did it hand in hand with our learning and development committee.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:18:57]:

And then I also positioned myself as, look, I wanna moderate the the q and a with this person. And so then from there, I was able to be top of mind for the learning and development committee that we had internally, but then as well everyone within our company watching for the speaker as well. And then snap some photos to put that on my LinkedIn and talk about what were the key takeaways that that we did off the back of that. And in that way, regardless of who sees that LinkedIn post and will just continue scrolling on, I then have at least put myself forward to be in the minds of someone as someone who belongs on stage, someone who can be a speaker, someone who is passionate about the topic of self promotion. So that maybe down the line, that might then be something that I might be called upon for later. Maybe not. And if not, then that’s okay. Again, the act of doing it itself is the challenge of, you know, putting myself on stage and being in a situation that’s a bit foreign and almost a little bit uncomfortable for me, but that provides a growth opportunity for me.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:19:58]:

And then I think the third part of it is serving others and and really providing value to others. So when, you have the opportunity to connect with someone, what value can you offer them? When you’re trying to network, what can you offer to someone else? How can you solve a problem that they’re facing? And being really curious and understanding and listening to them on, what are they struggling with at the moment? Is there someone in your network or in your, block book that you could connect them with that could potentially help them. Is there a resource you can share, an article? Can you do some follow-up with them and and share with them something that you’ve seen out there that relates to a conversation that you had and start a way of connecting with someone else and not treating networking or personal branding as transactional, but rather being generous with it. Offering your value with no strings attached and then that being the end goal of it. And then if a collaboration or a work opportunity comes off the back of that, all the better, but that’s not the primary objective.

Aoife O’Brien [00:20:59]:

Thank you so much. There’s so much to unpack there, I think, as well, Lisa. Let’s start with this idea of what a personal brand is, and it’s what people say about you when you’re not in the room. So, basically, that means that people have a personal brand whether they like it or not. And I believe the best strategy is for you to control what that narrative actually is. There is a video that I saw, by Carla Harris. And in it, she talks about the 3 words. Like, pick the 3 words that you want to be known for And Mhmm.

Aoife O’Brien [00:21:32]:

The some of the challenges that she had in her career, someone she was working on Wall Street and someone told her, you’re not tough enough for this business. And so she spent the next 6 months and the way she describes it is so encouraging. Like, I was walked off. I talked tough. And so she had all of these, I suppose, strategies. But one of the things that she talks about and as I said, I’ll put a link to to this video so that you can watch it, at a later stage if you know, for anyone who’s listening today, is to use the words. So the word I always think like, a lot of people are told that they need to be more strategic in their role. So if you start using the word strategic or talking about strategy, then people will start to associate that word with you.

Aoife O’Brien [00:22:16]:

So if you say, oh, wow. That’s such a strategic approach that you’ve taken there. Or okay. So this is great, but what’s the strategy? What’s the overall strategy? And then people will start to think, wow. Aoife’s talking about strategy and being strategic. If I need help with being strategic, I need to go and talk to Aoife about that. So I I really like that as an approach. And, Alisa, thank you so much for sharing the very specific things that you’ve done within your organization.

Aoife O’Brien [00:22:42]:

And for anyone who’s listening today, I’m sure these types of opportunities are available. And it’s not a case of, oh, there there’s an opportunity there, and I’m gonna put myself forward for it. It’s not. It’s I see an opportunity to change how we do things, and I’m going to take responsibility for setting that up. And I’m very deliberately gonna place myself as the person who is in the narrative. I’m gonna have pictures of me on stage so that people associate me with speaking on stage, so that people associate me with speaking on a topic that’s so relevant for people and that’s self promotion without being really sleazy. Side note, there is a previous podcast episode in which we talk about some very specific strategies about this. Again, I’ll put a link to that in the show notes as well.

Aoife O’Brien [00:23:28]:

But the other thing that I took from what you were saying was this idea of it’s not about what we can get out of it from ourselves. So when we show up in an authentic way, it really is to serve other people. So how can I connect you? Who do you need to connect with? What’s the problem that you’re trying to solve? And, again, by the time this podcast airs, I will have released another episode in which I share about the complete opposite experience that I had. I filled Alyssa in before we started recording where someone was very much connecting with me for what was in it for him, and there wasn’t really anything in it for me. So as a recipient of that, like, it just felt very, very one-sided. So I think the focus always should be to to see, like, what value can I add to this person rather than what value can I extract from this relationship? So

Alyssa Jaffer [00:24:24]:

Absolutely. Because we’re constantly being sold to. So Yeah. As well, it’s, you know, how can we connect with one another in a in a more genuine way? Yeah. Because then when you need something, then that person is going to be more willing to help you. Get what get what it is you need because you’ve taken the steps to actually know and understand who they are as a person, what you can do to help them as well. So it just builds the connection in a more genuine, authentic way, more of like a friendship rather than a transaction.

Aoife O’Brien [00:24:53]:

Yeah. Definitely. If, you know, for anyone who’s listening, if you’re anything like me, I don’t know how many DMs I get per week that are like, oh, hey. And I have this new thing. And I got an email yesterday from someone who has this software, which I tried actually a year ago or maybe a little bit more, and they were reaching out. They didn’t realize that I had already used the software, tried it, didn’t think it was that great, and stopped using it. So Mhmm. At the time that I stopped using it would have been the time to reach out to find out what was going on, not like a year or 18 months later to say, hey.

Aoife O’Brien [00:25:29]:

Have you heard of our software? Which, you know, in brackets, I have actually already used. So, yeah, I think understanding how you can add value rather than trying to sell people’s stuff all the time, which sometimes is hard because the role models that we have are those people landing in our inbox saying, hey. I have this thing to sell for you. Me, personally, I do like to connect with people on an authentic level. I invite people to have conversations with me all the time. Not everyone accepts. But I do like genuinely to have 1 on 1 conversations. I think it’s the best way to connect.

Aoife O’Brien [00:26:05]:

For me as an introvert, I much prefer that 1 on 1 rather than joining, like, you know, when the height of the pandemic, the Zoom rooms and there was networking, which was good from a convenience perspective and from a numbers perspective. But actually, I think taking it back to that 1 on 1 connection makes all the difference for me.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:26:22]:

Absolutely. I completely agree. I, I consider myself an extroverted introvert as well, and I find that kind of networking on mass doesn’t work for me at all because I walk away feeling really depleted in terms of energy and then not having anything of value off the back of it. I don’t feel like I’ve given my best, and I’ve not received much back. And I think as well in this world where we’re constantly being sold, there’s 10,000 ads that we see every day, and our DMs are blowing up with people trying to sell us. And, you know, all all due respect to salespeople, that’s part of their job. That’s what they need to do. However, when you then approach someone with a genuine interest in who they are, what they do, what their problems are, and how you can help solve them, that’s actually a breath of fresh air, and it cuts through that noise because it’s such a different, refreshing approach.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:27:11]:

And I think the value as well for someone who’s a bit networking averse or shy is as well that it makes it about the other person and takes a bit of the focus off of you. So if you’re thinking more about the other person and takes a bit of the focus off of you. So if you’re thinking more about the other person, it makes it a bit of a less intimidating situation to, to walk into. So the, the upsides are only, there there’s only upsides, I think, to that type of approach.

Aoife O’Brien [00:27:35]:

Brilliant. I suppose bringing this all back to personal branding and how to be how to do it in an authentic way and tying everything that we’ve talked about together in, I suppose, in a nice little bow because what what we’ve been talking about so we started by talking about personal brand and how to grow your personal brand, what does it mean, and some very specific things that we can do. But then it’s kind of coming back to this idea of authenticity. So how can we do that in a way that feels real for us without the I’m delighted to announce that yet again I have been awarded or I’m delighted to announce I’m starting a new role. But finding a way that feels really good for us to do that and and to connect as humans as well, but tying it together to say, right, and how do we how do we leverage this then to progress in our career?

Alyssa Jaffer [00:28:35]:

I think it’s it depends on what your goals are. And sometimes what the goal might be is just to put something out there and see how people respond. And I think what I have felt more comfortable doing, when I started posting on LinkedIn more regularly is basically to just check-in with people who I already know are my cheerleaders. So friends and colleagues who know me, know me as a person, and I can almost sense check it with them where I can and I’ve I’ve seen, people who have been in networking groups with me or, even mentorship groups with me, coaching, cohorts with me doing that and and sending a post of their sending a link of their LinkedIn post in the group chat and saying, can you all go send this post some love? Tell me what you think about it. Is it cringey? I’m putting myself out there because you are being vulnerable in a way by showing up online. The the thing is is that if you don’t then take that step to put yourself out there, people are going to form their own opinion and personal brand for you. So it’s the choice is not do I want a personal brand or not? It’s more of what you said. We all have a personal brand whether we like it or not.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:29:46]:

It’s just a case in point of corporate life now. The question then is, do you want to be the one steering your narrative, or do you want other people building that narrative for you? So do you wanna take an active role in what it is that people say about you, what you want them to know about you? And I think the value now of the age of social media is that we have now platforms at our disposal where everyone can put that put that out there. It’s not so much dependent on what a newspaper says about you or what your, what your manager is saying about you in your performance review. You actually now have access to a platform where you can put your name on something and put it out there and see how people respond. So I think when it comes to what it is that that you’re trying to do with personal branding, sometimes it’s okay to start small and just test things out. Just put out a couple of posts here and there and see what people are responding to, what they’re interested in, and what you yourself are enjoying. I have, been playing around with this content format called my 3 one twos. So every Friday, I’m putting out a post on LinkedIn, and I’m saying, these are my weekly recommendations of 3, 3 ones to read, follow, and watch.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:30:54]:

So I basically have a recurring format where I list out, here’s an article that I read this week, here’s what it was about and why it stuck with me, Here’s a video that I that I think you should watch, and here’s why. And here’s a person that I think you should follow. And so I tried that out just as an experiment over over 4 weeks, and I thought, let me just put that out there and see if see if it works. It’s got a bit of a catchy title to it. There’s literally no harm if people are not responding, and it’s kind of falling flat in terms of engagement. If it’s not working or if I’m not enjoying it, I can stop at any time with no consequence. It doesn’t really matter. So I did that for a few weeks, and actually, the reception that I got was quite good.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:31:32]:

And, people were commenting on it and liking it and going out of their way to say, wow. I really love this series. I can’t wait for this. I look forward to it week after week. And then one week, I missed. And then in real life, my group coaching co cohort told me, I really love that series, that 3 one twos that you do. How come you didn’t do one this week? And I thought, oh, actually, people are noticing. People are almost expecting it from me, and I’m not just shouting into a void and no one cares.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:32:02]:

Here now I have actual evidence that’s proving to me that people actually are reading the content that I’m putting out there, so it motivated me to then keep going. So I think it’s more about this of, you know, even if you’re unsure, if you start somewhere, you can collect data. You can collect those data points and then use that to inform how you move forward. You can see how you’re feeling, how you’re doing about it, whether it’s resonating with people or not, and you can course correct as needed. You have infinite chances. So I think that’s really, you know, when it comes to personal branding, we think of it as this thing that only celebrities have or only these big influencers need to think about. But actually, all of us have it. And if you really break it down to its basics, it’s it doesn’t have to be intimidating unless you build it up to be that way in your head.

Aoife O’Brien [00:32:45]:

Yeah. I think how you’ve explained it there in relation to it’s not about what people are saying you saying about you in the newspaper. It’s not just about what your manager says. Now you have this unique opportunity to post stuff on a platform like LinkedIn where you get to control what it is. And dare I say, some action points that come from everything that you’ve said, Alisa, like, is really to think about what are you interested in? What do you care about, what do you want to talk about, what do you want to be known for, and where can you add value, where can you add your unique voice or unique take on what it is that you want to get across. And I think having that approach and, again, building on the point that you mentioned earlier where it was like, people noticed that you didn’t post even if they’re not necessarily engaging on a regular basis. So maybe that person who said that to you, you’re like, well, you know, I never got a like or a comment from that person. But now they’re saying they’re realizing that it’s not there.

Aoife O’Brien [00:33:49]:

So many people are kinda lurking in the shadows Mhmm. On LinkedIn. They’re not necessarily posting or commenting or liking anything, but they’re still reading the stuff that’s going that’s being published out there. And I think there’s a huge opportunity for people just to start posting about something that they that they care about, whether that be leadership or, you know, helping women, self promotion as you mentioned earlier, and just getting their their voice out there. And, really, the purpose is to engage in in conversation and find people. I was gonna say find like minded people. I don’t often like that phrase because it’s also good to be challenged on some of the opinions that you have. Right.

Aoife O’Brien [00:34:28]:

But finding those people and sparking those conversations and listening to, well, what are people saying or what are people’s opinions based on what I’ve said is a really great way to build that authentic connection. And you never know where that’s going to to lead to either.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:34:44]:

Absolutely. Yes. And I think changing changing what what the goal is, similar to what we were talking about at the beginning of the conversation, if you then set yourself the goal of I’m going to post 3 times this week, and that- that itself is a goal. So no matter if your post gets 0 likes, if you’re able to separate your version of success from how external forces outside of your control are responding, but rather you make it about your own action, you can then change your, change your trajectory and you can change your motivation and you can basically set yourself up for something that you may not have otherwise known how to do. I put up a post on LinkedIn a couple of months ago, and basically it was about The Great Breakup, which is this phenomenon that a lot of women in very senior roles are leaving their posts after having climbed the career ladder. They’re looking around at the summit of their career pea- of the summit of their career, and they’re thinking, actually, this isn’t for me, and they’re leaving their jobs. And so I wrote a post about why this is happening, why the phenomenon of the great breakup exists. And that post ended up going viral with a 120 plus 120,000 plus impressions and likes and reposts and engaged in content that I put out there that I didn’t expect because the purpose of the post was not to go viral.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:36:04]:

Actually, the purpose of the post was to recycle content that I had been pitching around to editors for an article that I wanted to write that actually didn’t get picked up by any of my any of the editors that I was pitching to. So it was almost a bit of a failed pitch, because it didn’t get commissioned. So I thought, you know what? Let me put it on LinkedIn and see how see how see how that might go. And, actually, the response to that then, people were reaching out to me asking me to have conversations, and I was getting a lot more inbound interest. So it’s almost like if you’re able to think creatively in a way of put it out there and see what happens rather than, oh, I put it out there. No one responded, so it must be because I’m not interesting. I’m a failure. People don’t care.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:36:48]:

You never really know, and it takes a bit of consistency as well. So I think, as you said, being able to connect with people who you have some common interest with, it can unlock collaboration and opportunities and growth and challenge that you otherwise wouldn’t have gotten. And the other the other thing that I would caution to your readers your listeners as well is that if you’re not putting it out there, other people are. So when it comes to self promotion and and, you know, really kind of going after what it whatever it is that you that you want, whether that’s a speaking opportunity or an opportunity to be a guest on a podcast or being an expert featured in an article. If you’re not going to put yourself forward for it and make clear what it is that you want, from people in your from people in your network, no one will know how to help you. So I think that that’s really important as well of really understanding what is it that you want and, setting yourself up some steps that can help you to get there in a way that’s intentional, but without kind of having that, that as the primary objective, being that being connecting and building a connection with someone, helping someone else, serving value. That, I think, approach has a lot more success.

Aoife O’Brien [00:38:01]:

Mhmm. I think we’ve opened a can of worms, and this could be a completely new podcast episode about this idea of discovering what it is that you want because I saw this fantastic video of Oprah talking to, Trevor Noah about, like, why do most people not get what they want is because they don’t know what they want. Mhmm. And so that’s the reason. And oftentimes, we think we know what we want or maybe someone else has an expectation of us or or we have this outward idea of success rather than inwardly how is it supposed to feel. Like this example that you mentioned about the women who get to the summit of their careers, they’re looking around going, this is not what I thought it would be. This is not what I want. So I think spending time figuring out what it is you actually want upfront can help save a lot of the kind of the heartache, I suppose.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:38:55]:

Absolutely.

Aoife O’Brien [00:38:57]:

But yeah.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:38:57]:

And it goes back to the authenticity piece as well of, are you the same person in person as you are online? And how can you make sure that those two identities match up? Because that then feeds itself to you being an authentic person if you’re super friendly online, but then in person, you’re not willing to have conversations with people who you interact with at work or at your peer level, is there a mismatch then, of your personal brand? Because both are equally important.

Aoife O’Brien [00:39:24]:

Yeah. That’s a really good point, actually. That online, you’re you’re presenting this persona but actually internally in an organization, you don’t necessarily have that reputation. Like, you you’re a bit standoffish. Maybe you’re perceived as being shy or not that you’re perceived as being shy, maybe you are shy, but you’re being perceived as rude or unfriendly or whatever it might be. So that’s a really valid point actually, that connection between how you show up. And I’ve been told that I’m just like I am on the podcast. Like, so if I have a one to one conversation with someone, they’d be like, oh, it’s just like how you you’re just the same as how you are in the podcast.

Aoife O’Brien [00:40:00]:

I’m like, I I would hope so, and I would hope in real life that I come across in that way as well. Anyway, we have talked so much about this. It’s such an important and interesting topic. Alyssa, the question I ask everyone who comes on the podcast, what does being happier at work mean to you?

Alyssa Jaffer [00:40:18]:

For me, I think it’s about finding some meaning and purpose and some evidence of impact and value that my efforts are, are resulting in. So I’m a quite, I’m quite a hard worker. As a second generation immigrant, my parents instilled in me a very hard work ethic and that’s what they needed, to, to do in order to build a good life for themselves in the West. I think for me, how can then that hard work provide value to someone else? Because that then gives me meaning and purpose. And the the point that we were speaking about earlier of when you receive positive feedback from a listener of your podcast or, for me, someone who’s read my article, I find that so gratifying that actually it’s not just me putting my words out there into the void. I actually am making an impact, and I am, being able to connect with someone. And even if it’s just one person, that to me is still very much worthwhile of the effort. So I think being happier at work really is about finding some some lens of meaning and purpose in in what I’m doing day to day.

Aoife O’Brien [00:41:23]:

Brilliant. I love that. And if people want to find out more about what you do, if they want to connect with you, what is the best place they can do that?

Alyssa Jaffer [00:41:32]:

Yes. I think LinkedIn is is probably the the easiest way to find me. I’m at linkedin, dash in dash alisa dash jaffer. I also have a website, alisa.jaffer.com, and, I have a contact form on there if people wanna get in touch. And I’m on Instagram as well, so I’m highly reachable.

Aoife O’Brien [00:41:50]:

I think yeah. And just to let people know the spelling of your name as well, a l y s s a. So in case people are thinking it’s spelled in a different way, because I know I have to spell my name for people all the time. They don’t necessarily get it. So I can totally and utterly relate to that. But thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so so much for sharing all of your valuable tips, all of your wisdom. I really, really enjoyed today’s conversation, and I know that listeners are gonna take a lot from it.

Alyssa Jaffer [00:42:16]:

Thank you as well so much for having me. This has been so riveting to to speak about, and I am so grateful for the opportunity. So thank you so much, Aoife, and thanks everyone for listening.